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thalialunacy2'Fandom is a consistent juxtaposition of disappointing cruelty and heartwarming acceptance.'
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eschatologies, who is (and has been as long as I've known her, which, as she pointed out in the same conversation, has been eight years) one of the wisest people I've ever been around, said that a couple days ago, when I lamented the vitriol that's been aimed at Star Trek Into Darkness. A movie which, keep in mind, I didn't even really like. Enjoyed, yes. Felt true affection for? Not even close.
But not for the reasons you'd think.
---
Taylor hadn't seen me since Wednesday, before I saw the movie. "So," he said today as soon as our boss had left and we had a moment, "will I like it?"
"It's JJ Abrams," I said with a shrug. "It's a good movie."
Taylor is the biggest LOST fan I've met outside of fandom, so he nodded. And he knows me pretty well, so: "But?"
I really respect Taylor's intelligence, and it's mutual. And explaining why I didn't like the movie without spoiling it is really quite difficult. So I had to contemplate my words. "The 2009 movie was so phenomenal because it felt like it went outside the scope of the genre. It wasn't just a great science fiction movie; it was a great movie. It blew the boundaries out of the water."
"Yeah, agreed."
"And this one... didn't."
He tilted his head. "And why do a remake otherwise? What's it for?"
And it's true; that's what a reboot, retake, remake, performance of a classic should be. It isn't, most of the time, because it's bloody hard (here's where I avoid going on a tangent about performance art and classical music), but it's the goal. We update the special effects (obvs). We update the acting (because acting styles themselves change with time). We update the plots (eg 3:10 to Yuma, Oceans Eleven, etc). We update the politics & philosophies (eg Nolan's Batman trilogy). We do whatever it takes to take something we love and we make it relevant again, so new people will love it as much as we do.
Unless you're the writers of STID, in which case, I honestly think, you're too excited about getting to write something you love in a way you want to write it. They wrote fanfiction, not new material, and while I respect that as an idea (obvs), I wish somebody had stopped them before it went to production. Because it wasn't a bad movie, by any means. But it feels to me--and to many of us, it seems--that it could've been so much more.
And the production team spent years, literally, convincing us it would be more, cagily promising mystery and surprises and then delivering exactly none of either. Or, rather, the only mystery was their reticence and the only surprise was their deception. (Karl and his fucking Gary Mitchell comment. I have never before wanted to punch him in the face.) I feel dumb now, because I honestly was convinced it would be more than a remake of a movie I never liked in the first place.
Because there's the other part: It was a great genre film, a blow em up, one liners r us, mentor dies to test the hero, bad guys are psycho, ooh space is pretty, SCIENCE FICTION IS BADASS movie. Well, I hate to break it to y'all, but the only sci-fi movies I've ever legitimately liked (note how I did not say 'enjoyed') were The Matrix-es, and The Fifth Element. (And ST:XI, but that goes without saying.) The rest of them--and 98% of Doctor Who episodes--make me cringe. I love geek culture, but geek canon not so much. So cheesy, so awful, so silly, SO CHEESY OMFG. Fire the this and cold fusion that and space suits and wet suits and I only like it if it winks at the cameraor has heavy religious allegory what i'm predictable okay. This movie did not even so much as blink at the damn camera. I was bored by the end, and incredibly turned off by all the gratuitous TOS cutaways (sexism, ethnocentrism, racism, Kirk/Spock...ism) because, again, my expectations were wildly different.
Which is my fault, in the end, is my point. Yes, the production team did their damndest to convince us it was going to be mind-blowing. But I think if I were really a Trek fan, really a science fiction fan, it would've at least been a really, really good time.
TL;DR comparison is the thief of joy, as a very wisejazzy_peaches said to me, about something completely unrelated. I'm relatively certain I'll be interested in watching it again, because I do love the characters (um, except Kirk, but that's personal, not professional), and watching Uhura speak Klingon and Benedict go all Wachowski was a pretty good ten minutes, but that day is probably far away and going to involve drinking every time something makes me facepalm.
You're welcome to join me. Point out to me the good stuff. Lovingly make fun of the bad stuff. Arrange dolls in highly suggestive positions and talk about Chris Pine's clothes. Have a good ole fangirly time.
I'll make sure to have hangover hypos ready the next day.
eschatologies, who is (and has been as long as I've known her, which, as she pointed out in the same conversation, has been eight years) one of the wisest people I've ever been around, said that a couple days ago, when I lamented the vitriol that's been aimed at Star Trek Into Darkness. A movie which, keep in mind, I didn't even really like. Enjoyed, yes. Felt true affection for? Not even close.But not for the reasons you'd think.
---
Taylor hadn't seen me since Wednesday, before I saw the movie. "So," he said today as soon as our boss had left and we had a moment, "will I like it?"
"It's JJ Abrams," I said with a shrug. "It's a good movie."
Taylor is the biggest LOST fan I've met outside of fandom, so he nodded. And he knows me pretty well, so: "But?"
I really respect Taylor's intelligence, and it's mutual. And explaining why I didn't like the movie without spoiling it is really quite difficult. So I had to contemplate my words. "The 2009 movie was so phenomenal because it felt like it went outside the scope of the genre. It wasn't just a great science fiction movie; it was a great movie. It blew the boundaries out of the water."
"Yeah, agreed."
"And this one... didn't."
He tilted his head. "And why do a remake otherwise? What's it for?"
And it's true; that's what a reboot, retake, remake, performance of a classic should be. It isn't, most of the time, because it's bloody hard (here's where I avoid going on a tangent about performance art and classical music), but it's the goal. We update the special effects (obvs). We update the acting (because acting styles themselves change with time). We update the plots (eg 3:10 to Yuma, Oceans Eleven, etc). We update the politics & philosophies (eg Nolan's Batman trilogy). We do whatever it takes to take something we love and we make it relevant again, so new people will love it as much as we do.
And the production team spent years, literally, convincing us it would be more, cagily promising mystery and surprises and then delivering exactly none of either. Or, rather, the only mystery was their reticence and the only surprise was their deception. (Karl and his fucking Gary Mitchell comment. I have never before wanted to punch him in the face.) I feel dumb now, because I honestly was convinced it would be more than a remake of a movie I never liked in the first place.
Because there's the other part: It was a great genre film, a blow em up, one liners r us, mentor dies to test the hero, bad guys are psycho, ooh space is pretty, SCIENCE FICTION IS BADASS movie. Well, I hate to break it to y'all, but the only sci-fi movies I've ever legitimately liked (note how I did not say 'enjoyed') were The Matrix-es, and The Fifth Element. (And ST:XI, but that goes without saying.) The rest of them--and 98% of Doctor Who episodes--make me cringe. I love geek culture, but geek canon not so much. So cheesy, so awful, so silly, SO CHEESY OMFG. Fire the this and cold fusion that and space suits and wet suits and I only like it if it winks at the camera
Which is my fault, in the end, is my point. Yes, the production team did their damndest to convince us it was going to be mind-blowing. But I think if I were really a Trek fan, really a science fiction fan, it would've at least been a really, really good time.
TL;DR comparison is the thief of joy, as a very wise
jazzy_peaches said to me, about something completely unrelated. I'm relatively certain I'll be interested in watching it again, because I do love the characters (um, except Kirk, but that's personal, not professional), and watching Uhura speak Klingon and Benedict go all Wachowski was a pretty good ten minutes, but that day is probably far away and going to involve drinking every time something makes me facepalm.You're welcome to join me. Point out to me the good stuff. Lovingly make fun of the bad stuff. Arrange dolls in highly suggestive positions and talk about Chris Pine's clothes. Have a good ole fangirly time.
I'll make sure to have hangover hypos ready the next day.
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no subject
Date: 2013-06-10 12:32 am (UTC)It could have been John Harrison full stop and it still would've been a hit. Or changed his last name to "King" or "Kale" and then have Spock (out of character) yell it out. Most of the audience wouldn't have noticed the change really---okay, I'm being snarky but still the whole conscious whitewashing thing? really pisses me off. And I do think BC is great actor, just I don't think I'll get over it. And I'm kind of irritated by people defending it by saying well TOS was kind of racist...well if someone does something stupid/wrong fifty years ago, I would certainly hope we are much better than that in 2013.
I see what you mean. But it makes me wonder...what is your opinion about the TOS! dynamic? Do you still see K/M in TOS? And do you see why people ship K/S with regards to TOS? My take on reboot is that I came away shipping nothing the first time I saw the film. And for the most part that is true still. But I really like Pine!Kirk which is why I like to play in reboot!verse. And I really dislike Spock because I just see him as a jerk with pointed ears. It's strange I know. So when I do read reboot!verse fic with K/S I'm kind of channeling TOS!Spock I think.
ETA: But I completely agree about how out of character the TWoK scenes b/t Kirk and Spock felt---argh...it was so random. I could potentially buy it from Kirk's side but definitely not Spock. Like they barely know each other. Completely baffles the mind---they were pretty much hinging that scene on TOS feelings. Which makes no sense since it wasn't supposed to be a movie for fans only.
no subject
Date: 2013-06-10 03:40 am (UTC)And if that didn't send you running, uh, here's the truth - I've only seen one episode of TOS. Every clip and gif and pic I've seen is just so cheesy. I plan on watching it one of these days, but with large amounts of alcohol and a rifftrack or two. Being in fandom for so long I have no cause to doubt TOS K/S (see icon, lol), and I'd probably ship it in TOS if I could get over, well, it being TOS. As I said in the entry, I don't really actually like sci-fi that much. It's not a judgment (um, obviously, lol, considering half of my fic is Trek-related); it's just an aesthetic preference.
To springboard from that into your last point, I think K/S is part of the general first world collective consciousness at this point. I honestly do. So putting that emotional moment in the reboot was a calculated risk, and, like I said above, it worked with most people. Although you're the second K/S shipper on my f'list to say it didn't do it for them, which is fascinating.
IN CONCLUSION... I have no conclusion. I do love the points you've brought up, though! Thanks. :D <3
no subject
Date: 2013-06-22 03:26 pm (UTC)I just wanted to clarify, my feelings about the whole Khan thing...it's probably not the opinion of the general audience/fans/market and I can see that and I can understand why and if I came across trying to speak for them, I definitely did not mean to. Representation in visual media, especially films confound me and I don't think I'll ever understand it. I think I was just hoping for things from something that means a lot to me on a philosophical level and in the scheme of things when it comes to the point of plain entertainment, it's not important. Sure I wish, Abrahms had the vision to push what Roddenberry started further and having an audience who demanded for better representation would be amazing. But most people don't go to the movies to critically analyze what's on screen. And I'm guilty of it too. Just because I'm involved in Trek means I'm more critical of it but I can't expect that from the general audience.
But yeah, I'll stop with all the Trek movie feels here. The silver lining in this for me is that reboot!verse despite all of its flaws is fun to play in and that there might be a possibility of another reboot Trek in general in my lifetime since this kicked open the door for that at least and that's a win in my book :)
no subject
Date: 2013-07-12 06:48 pm (UTC)lol never stop with the Trek thoughts and feelings! I love that you feel so passionately about it. I wish there was a way to get feedback to TPTB, and I wish everyone was a little more constructively critical about it than the hurtful anger I've seen so much of, but I get that it's a big deal to us. IDK. Live long and write fanfic. ;)
<333