thalialunacy2 | They'll name a city after us / And later say it's all our fault

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They'll name a city after us / And later say it's all our fault

'Fandom is a consistent juxtaposition of disappointing cruelty and heartwarming acceptance.'

eschatologies, who is (and has been as long as I've known her, which, as she pointed out in the same conversation, has been eight years) one of the wisest people I've ever been around, said that a couple days ago, when I lamented the vitriol that's been aimed at Star Trek Into Darkness. A movie which, keep in mind, I didn't even really like. Enjoyed, yes. Felt true affection for? Not even close.

But not for the reasons you'd think.

---

Taylor hadn't seen me since Wednesday, before I saw the movie. "So," he said today as soon as our boss had left and we had a moment, "will I like it?"

"It's JJ Abrams," I said with a shrug. "It's a good movie."

Taylor is the biggest LOST fan I've met outside of fandom, so he nodded. And he knows me pretty well, so: "But?"

I really respect Taylor's intelligence, and it's mutual. And explaining why I didn't like the movie without spoiling it is really quite difficult. So I had to contemplate my words. "The 2009 movie was so phenomenal because it felt like it went outside the scope of the genre. It wasn't just a great science fiction movie; it was a great movie. It blew the boundaries out of the water."

"Yeah, agreed."

"And this one... didn't."

He tilted his head. "And why do a remake otherwise? What's it for?"

And it's true; that's what a reboot, retake, remake, performance of a classic should be. It isn't, most of the time, because it's bloody hard (here's where I avoid going on a tangent about performance art and classical music), but it's the goal. We update the special effects (obvs). We update the acting (because acting styles themselves change with time). We update the plots (eg 3:10 to Yuma, Oceans Eleven, etc). We update the politics & philosophies (eg Nolan's Batman trilogy). We do whatever it takes to take something we love and we make it relevant again, so new people will love it as much as we do.

Unless you're the writers of STID, in which case, I honestly think, you're too excited about getting to write something you love in a way you want to write it. They wrote fanfiction, not new material, and while I respect that as an idea (obvs), I wish somebody had stopped them before it went to production. Because it wasn't a bad movie, by any means. But it feels to me--and to many of us, it seems--that it could've been so much more.

And the production team spent years, literally, convincing us it would be more, cagily promising mystery and surprises and then delivering exactly none of either. Or, rather, the only mystery was their reticence and the only surprise was their deception. (Karl and his fucking Gary Mitchell comment. I have never before wanted to punch him in the face.) I feel dumb now, because I honestly was convinced it would be more than a remake of a movie I never liked in the first place.

Because there's the other part: It was a great genre film, a blow em up, one liners r us, mentor dies to test the hero, bad guys are psycho, ooh space is pretty, SCIENCE FICTION IS BADASS movie. Well, I hate to break it to y'all, but the only sci-fi movies I've ever legitimately liked (note how I did not say 'enjoyed') were The Matrix-es, and The Fifth Element. (And ST:XI, but that goes without saying.) The rest of them--and 98% of Doctor Who episodes--make me cringe. I love geek culture, but geek canon not so much. So cheesy, so awful, so silly, SO CHEESY OMFG. Fire the this and cold fusion that and space suits and wet suits and I only like it if it winks at the camera ~~or has heavy religious allegory what i'm predictable okay~~. This movie did not even so much as blink at the damn camera. I was bored by the end, and incredibly turned off by all the gratuitous TOS cutaways (sexism, ethnocentrism, racism, Kirk/Spock...ism) because, again, my expectations were wildly different.

Which is my fault, in the end, is my point. Yes, the production team did their damndest to convince us it was going to be mind-blowing. But I think if I were really a Trek fan, really a science fiction fan, it would've at least been a really, really good time.

TL;DR comparison is the thief of joy, as a very wise

jazzy_peaches said to me, about something completely unrelated. I'm relatively certain I'll be interested in watching it again, because I do love the characters (um, except Kirk, but that's personal, not professional), and watching Uhura speak Klingon and Benedict go all Wachowski was a pretty good ten minutes, but that day is probably far away and going to involve drinking every time something makes me facepalm.

You're welcome to join me. Point out to me the good stuff. Lovingly make fun of the bad stuff. Arrange dolls in highly suggestive positions and talk about Chris Pine's clothes. Have a good ole fangirly time.

I'll make sure to have hangover hypos ready the next day.

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I was bored by the end, and incredibly turned off by all the gratuitous TOS cutaways (sexism, ethnocentrism, racism, Kirk/Spock...ism) because, again, my expectations were wildly different

Yes, yes, that. All that. The first 3/4 of the file I believed they were going to be creative, turn Khan into like a gray character, bad in that he'll kill innocents but good in that all he wants is to protect his crew. Our real enemy is giong to be from within, the head of Star Trek. It seemed like an interesting twist on the Khan thing and making it the reboot era's own idea and new path! I was even willing to ignore the sexism and whitewash for a while there and then it ended as it did in a revenge chase scene and I was mad as fuck.

But I think if I were really a Trek fan, really a science fiction fan, it would've at least been a really, really good time.

...............hmm...... maybe sci-fi fan but not Trek fan.

Though to be honest, I think I need to see it at least once more to get past the anger and meta in my head. I admit I am one of the people spewing some hate at the movie and I need to step back from it. But really need to wag my finger at my past self and say 'really, what were you expecting?' How were they going to top Reboot anyhow!?

AND SCENE.... that got a tad away from me >_>

Edited 2013-05-22 13:39 (UTC)

How were they going to top Reboot anyhow!?
They SO EASILY COULD'VE, though. IMO. Basically... by doing anything new. They have such a phenomenal cast, and have proven that they can produce things that resonate. I have faith they could've done it, they just got too distracted by their own love of TOS and Wrath of Khan. Which is truly too bad.

But that doesn't mean we should browbeat this movie because it wasn't what we wanted. Entitlement syndrome is fucking annoying, and if we're not going to give constructive feedback to the powers that be, I say we move on.

Basically... by doing anything new.

True. I do love our cast!

And yeah, its not what I wanted but that doesn't; mean it also wasn't' all about the white males and my constructive crit would be to give our ladies more love... that isn't just about screaming or 'my boyfriend Spock.' (Not that they both didn't get their one badass moment but the movie does fail that test - I forget the name - where 1) does it have more than one woman? 2) Do they talk to each other? 3) About something other than men? Fail.)

I will admit, I need to see it again so I'm not so busy being mad at the boring ending. *cough*

Edited 2013-05-23 15:13 (UTC)

The Avengers didn't pass that test, but fandom doesn't seem to give a flying fuck.

As I am not in that fandom I cannot speak to it, I just saw the movie

EDIT: No, I take that back. I think its just I hold Trek to a higher standard and I don't expect as much from 'comic book' films. And I shouldn't be like that, I should expect the same level of gender equality that I want to see from all movies.

Edited 2013-05-24 19:20 (UTC)

I think you've hit the nail on the head, though - nobody expects it from most other genre movies. Period. But because Star Trek (TOS) was supposedly founded on this forward-thinking ideal of Roddenberry's, we expect it to be the modern extension of that. And that's not where the writers chose to go, and that's... lame, admittedly. But no more lame than the sole female superhero's 'power' being emotional manipulation. and big guns.

can you tell i have a lot of anger about Avengers

>.>

Oooohhhhhh yes

I should probably say I'm not an Abrahms fan at all. I think he's a great producer but I've never really liked him as a director so my expectations for the movie I think were much different from a lot of people.

I feel somewhat similarly with you on the film but I think we wildly differ on the main reason even though we see similar problems with the film. I will always have mix feelings about TOS, because issues aside and taking it in the context of the 1960s---it was progressive---not as much as it should be but it tried.

So the Khan remake. I'm still kind of trying to figure out why they went and did that. Like the writers go on Trek Movie all the effing time and a vast majority of the people were like 1)No white!Khan please b/c racism 2) The crew doesn't know each other that well to do a death scene 3) why, why would you decide to remake the best film out of the original series without a solid backstory? I mean as soon as the casting rumors of BC appeared, everyone was betting against Khan because we didn't think they would go there.

There have been some interesting discussions on the various relationships in the film. And here I think we'll have to agree to disagree. TOS hinged heavily on the K/S friendship. TWoK hinged heavily on the fact that Spock was Kirk's Kobayashi Maru and their friendship. I agree the reboot doesn't need to include those elements (and I kind of feel certain moments of those scenes in the film felt contrived) but well they did choose to go that way which to be honest I was surprised about since I was not expecting it at all. But McCoy was also very important to Kirk and he was so underutilized here. I kind of agree with the sentiment that I've read in reaction posts....it kind of feels weird that Scotty called Spock and not McCoy. For me as someone who is familiar with TOS, the death scene really didn't emotionally gripped me as the original one did---other than I was kind of impressed with Chris Pine. Like Kirk really was emotionally invested in Spock and if I wasn't a K/S person before, Chris Pine kind of sold me on it---I want all the unrequited!mind-meld gave me feelings fics in the world. I'm still not sold on the K/S in this canon quite yet and most of it for me comes through the influence of TOS (and now potentially reboot!Kirk) I don't know...and is K/S an ism? Not sure how I feel about it.

Also Pike's death? I'm kind of angry about it. And also super irritated with how Chapel is introduced into this timeline. WTF?! Do all the women in this reboot!verse have to be a romantic interest or a potential one? I actually like S/U but I still find the reboot in general to be more sexist than Thor...which I don't know what it says about the reboot.

And as much as I love Leonard Nimoy....the cameo was so redundant and just blah...I kind of wiped it from my mind.

But there were things I liked: 1)Noel Clarke 2) the line: If I were there and you were here, what would you have done...3) Scotty and Keenser (who doesn't like them?) 4)The chasing scene in Mbhiru 5) Kirk and Uhura 6) Pike and Kirk--damn Chris Pine some awesome acting there 7)the line "this is what you would have done"

....I'm sure there are more things I liked...but I need to rewatch the film. And I was utterly long-winded---I should just write my own reaction post...

But yes, I kind of agree with you on the whole, I liked it but it has quite a bit of issues.

Chris Pine is incredibly talented, and he acted the shit out of this movie.

I think they did it because it would be a hit while being a nod to the original series, and fandom, as much as we like to think otherwise, is not where the money comes from.

There was a class at my (weird tiny all-girls boarding Episcopalian) high school called Isms. Probably in most places it would've been called a Civics class, or something, but it was about ways of governing, about philosophical group patterns & dynamics. I would definitely, definitely say Kirk/Spock qualifies. And it's an ism of which I'm completely outside, so it's more obvious to me. And if K/S shippers are saying it felt shoehorned/overdone/etc? Imagine how the rest of us feel.

Yeah he did. I'm a little mixed on how reboot!Kirk is based on the writing, but man Chris Pine really sells Kirk well.

It could have been John Harrison full stop and it still would've been a hit. Or changed his last name to "King" or "Kale" and then have Spock (out of character) yell it out. Most of the audience wouldn't have noticed the change really---okay, I'm being snarky but still the whole conscious whitewashing thing? really pisses me off. And I do think BC is great actor, just I don't think I'll get over it. And I'm kind of irritated by people defending it by saying well TOS was kind of racist...well if someone does something stupid/wrong fifty years ago, I would certainly hope we are much better than that in 2013.

I see what you mean. But it makes me wonder...what is your opinion about the TOS! dynamic? Do you still see K/M in TOS? And do you see why people ship K/S with regards to TOS? My take on reboot is that I came away shipping nothing the first time I saw the film. And for the most part that is true still. But I really like Pine!Kirk which is why I like to play in reboot!verse. And I really dislike Spock because I just see him as a jerk with pointed ears. It's strange I know. So when I do read reboot!verse fic with K/S I'm kind of channeling TOS!Spock I think.

ETA: But I completely agree about how out of character the TWoK scenes b/t Kirk and Spock felt---argh...it was so random. I could potentially buy it from Kirk's side but definitely not Spock. Like they barely know each other. Completely baffles the mind---they were pretty much hinging that scene on TOS feelings. Which makes no sense since it wasn't supposed to be a movie for fans only.

Edited 2013-06-10 00:40 (UTC)

Okay, I'm going to be equally honest here - I don't think most of the audience noticed a white guy being cast as a non-white character. I don't think non-fans even realized it WAS a non-white character (and, really, they have good reason- last names don't mean all that much about race/ethnicity these days, so imagine where they'll be in three hundred years.) The non-fandoms fans I know (yes, mostly male and white, but generally liberal and aware) were really, really pleased, as generally pretty picky fans. Because fans are the worst at being, well, fans of things. I'm not disagreeing with your points (I in fact agree with them) but suggest none of us try to speak for all fans or for general opinion or for who makes the money at the box office and why.

And if that didn't send you running, uh, here's the truth - I've only seen one episode of TOS. Every clip and gif and pic I've seen is just so cheesy. I plan on watching it one of these days, but with large amounts of alcohol and a rifftrack or two. Being in fandom for so long I have no cause to doubt TOS K/S (see icon, lol), and I'd probably ship it in TOS if I could get over, well, it being TOS. As I said in the entry, I don't really actually like sci-fi that much. It's not a judgment (um, obviously, lol, considering half of my fic is Trek-related); it's just an aesthetic preference.

To springboard from that into your last point, I think K/S is part of the general first world collective consciousness at this point. I honestly do. So putting that emotional moment in the reboot was a calculated risk, and, like I said above, it worked with most people. Although you're the second K/S shipper on my f'list to say it didn't do it for them, which is fascinating.

IN CONCLUSION... I have no conclusion. I do love the points you've brought up, though! Thanks. :D <3

Edited 2013-06-10 03:41 (UTC)

(belated reply is belated)

I just wanted to clarify, my feelings about the whole Khan thing...it's probably not the opinion of the general audience/fans/market and I can see that and I can understand why and if I came across trying to speak for them, I definitely did not mean to. Representation in visual media, especially films confound me and I don't think I'll ever understand it. I think I was just hoping for things from something that means a lot to me on a philosophical level and in the scheme of things when it comes to the point of plain entertainment, it's not important. Sure I wish, Abrahms had the vision to push what Roddenberry started further and having an audience who demanded for better representation would be amazing. But most people don't go to the movies to critically analyze what's on screen. And I'm guilty of it too. Just because I'm involved in Trek means I'm more critical of it but I can't expect that from the general audience.

But yeah, I'll stop with all the Trek movie feels here. The silver lining in this for me is that reboot!verse despite all of its flaws is fun to play in and that there might be a possibility of another reboot Trek in general in my lifetime since this kicked open the door for that at least and that's a win in my book :)

(hahah then we will be good friends because I am pretty much always late with replies, especially if they're hot topics, and life's been pretty ridiculous for me lately...)

lol never stop with the Trek thoughts and feelings! I love that you feel so passionately about it. I wish there was a way to get feedback to TPTB, and I wish everyone was a little more constructively critical about it than the hurtful anger I've seen so much of, but I get that it's a big deal to us. IDK. Live long and write fanfic. ;)

<333

idek where to start in commenting on this post, but maybe by asking for your hand in marriage? or offering you my firstborn, should one appear? or sth?

you have expressed so many things i feel about this film so, so well!!!

Enjoyed, yes. Felt true affection for? Not even close.

that's it right there, in a nutshell. there were some things i loved, like Chris' performance which really wowed me. comic or tragic, i think he did great, which imho was the best thing about the film.

there were a lot of things i intensely disliked, but i won't start ranting here. i left the cinema somewhat emotional and somewhat underwhelmed. in large part this was, as you put it so succinctly, It was a great genre film, a blow em up, one liners r us, mentor dies to test the hero, bad guys are psycho, ooh space is pretty, SCIENCE FICTION IS BADASS movie.

this is what i expected of the first one, when i went to see it about 2.5 months after it was released and when it was only showing in three cinemas in town anymore. i had not made it before, because i am so not into that kind of thing. but XI was an absolute revelation, it was so much more than that.

XII was the exact opposite for me, and again, as you state spot on: it feels to me (...) that it could've been so much more.

i have commented in other jnls, where people loved the film and i agree that there are many good aspects to it, but ultimately, i feel sad. my own issue i feel, as i do not believe in entitlement, however much i wish they had continued in the direction they had started out in. not the writers', director's or actors fault that i did not like it, but a let-down nonetheless. i believed the hype and was disappointed by how lamentably conventional it turned out in the end. /whining

anyway, to end on a high note, your writing is great, whether your epic prose, or your observations on rl, like in this post :)

heehee you're too kind to me <333333

Chris did do great. He's fucking talented and it kind of pains me, lol.

I think 'underwhelmed' is a perfect descriptor for the whole thing. So next time we'll know better. Hopefully. XB

You already know a lot of my feelings on the film (and the more I see it the more I'm able to put my head in the sand about the stuff I didn't like and concentrate on the stuff I did), but this:

Unless you're the writers of STID, in which case, I honestly think, you're too excited about getting to write something you love in a way you want to write it. They wrote fanfiction, not new material, and while I respect that as an idea (obvs), I wish somebody had stopped them before it went to production. Because it wasn't a bad movie, by any means. But it feels to me--and to many of us, it seems--that it could've been so much more.

pretty much sums it up for me. And I acknowledge that I'd lost sight of the fact that they were always going to just write a blockbuster sci-fi ratings-winner, but like you say, with all the secrecy and promises and stuff, the build up promised something they were never going to realistically be able to deliver. And I will never forgive them for Pike. NEVER. Although the wetsuits went a small way to offsetting their debt...

*lights candle for Pike*

idk, in the plot of the film, it only made sense to kill him off. we've already discussed how it was a questionable plot, but that aside, it had to be done. I guess people are frustrated because it's a particularly poignant manifestation of the questionableness of the plot?

Oh no, I totally agree Pike had to die! That definitely was going to happen no matter what.

Just brings a tear. *sniffle*

ahhh okay. I'm just... heartless, then. lol.

lol no, probably just more prepared? I dunno!

lol well thanks for trying to defend my honor. XB <3

Word. I mean, I didn't mind Pike dying and I didn't like the wetsuits (Uhura's ~tastefully zipping up the front, lol), but the rest. ;)

Has there been fix-it fic of the K/Mc variety yet? Uh, of the non-poly variety because strangely enough it's a squick for me with that pairing lolol? Or are you still not ready to delve into fic?

Honestly, I've kind of stayed away from post-STID fic for now. I will dive into it at some point, but the little I have read has been largely, well...not to my tastes, shall we say? And the Pike thing hurt me pretty badly (daft I know, but I need to stop underestimating how upset character death makes me when I'm so invested in the character they kill off. *sigh*), so I'm waiting for authors I know and trust to deal with that because I'm only going to be able to read about the aftermath so many times, and I'd rather do it where I know that although they'll rip my heart out all over again, there's a chance they'll start to put it back together too. See...daft.

I don't think I've seen any fix-it fic for K/Mc, although I haven't gone searching on AO3 at all yet, so there may be a ton of it over there? Personally I've been putting my head in the sand and making myself happy by reading

withthepilot's superb, hot and hilarious Urbine take on Forgetting Sarah Marshall (which is one of my favourite films ever. I'M NOT SORRY.)

That's totally, totally understandable, and not daft at all. :cuddles you: We feel what we feel, you know?

and lol that fic. good times. XB

Although there were other things I disliked when I thought about it more, when leaving the theater, my immediate reaction was that I felt like this movie lacked the emotional depth that the 2009 film had. In that movie, we had some great action, crazy science, and developed characters whose personal journey we were watching sort of inside this larger plot. We connected with them. When Spock's planet implodes, we feel for him (twice, even, when we see it through Spock Prime's eyes). When Kirk can't get anyone to listen to him on the bridge, we feel frustrated, too.

And this time I felt like there was almost no emotional depth- there were surface emotions of sadness or anger, but the plot had so much ~~too much~~ action and even crazier science ~~(maybe a little too crazy)~~ that they had to whip through everything quickly and we didn't have time to get connected to these people again, or even get a feel for how they connect to each other. Spock gets all emotional over Kirk, but really, there were almost no scenes to convey that they have grown as close as TOS Spock and Kirk had after however many years of TOS being on. So it made no sense and we didn't feel it (or I didn't).

In that way, this film does feel like a fic, because in fic you don't always have to do as much set-up- we already know the characters and personalities and to some extent, relationships. You can rely on familiarity with canon to get you to a certain point. And that's what I feel like the filmmakers did here. They relied on people's emotions for TOS Spock and Kirk in the original movie to move them in this film as well. (This is interesting because JJ claims he made these movies for people who weren't necessarily fans of TOS.) Whereas before, they did that only with Spock Prime's feelings for Kirk and made everything else evolve naturally.

As somebody else brought up, some of that is because of the urgency of the plot - the first film it was the whole planet on the line, several planets even. This one, it was.... I'm still not sure what it was. The Enterprise crew I guess, which provides tension but not nearly as much.

Spock gets all emotional over Kirk, but really, there were almost no scenes to convey that they have grown as close as TOS Spock and Kirk had after however many years of TOS being on. So it made no sense and we didn't feel it (or I didn't).
GOOD GOD I'm glad to hear you say that. I thought about you a lot as I was watching it because it was so clearly supposed to be a nod to K/S shippers. To me it was pretty awful because not only not my ship but it felt hackneyed as hell, but I wondered if that was just me reacting badly because it's not my ship. So. Thank you for validating that, lol.

And your last paragraph is spot fucking on. APPLAUSE.

Agreed. Agreed on all counts.

The writing was painfully sub-par, but because the acting was so phenomenal I didn't really notice how bad it was until about the midway mark, and then I couldn't NOT notice it, so I spent the last hour rolling my eyes. (Spock screaming "KHAN"? Really? That's how we're going to play that? Really?). The number one issue, story-wise, was that there wasn't any serious conflict. In the last film it was the End of Days kind of thing, which ratcheted up the tension until the last fifteen minutes of the film BLEW YOUR MIND. In this film, Kirk loses his command and gets it back in fifteen minutes.

The movie was great, just as you said, but it wasn't epic. I was waiting for epic.

Edited 2013-05-23 18:01 (UTC)

The number one issue, story-wise, was that there wasn't any serious conflict.
Oooo, excellent point. I re-watched The Fifth Element last night, and dissected why I love it so much and why I think it's so great, and yeah, half the tension is from normal people having to do ridiculously abnormal things -- like save the world. Having a knowingly badass crew just kind of... get one guy re-frozen... is underwhelming at best. lol i know I'm being catty and it was a little more complex than that, but it's a fair point and thank you for bringing it up!

oooooo I third this point, on the nose there

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2013/05/star_treks_deleted_cumberbatch_shower_scene.php
I love the second music. Also, now that the internet has the footage, I'm surprised I haven't seen the .gif splattered across the web today.

http://reni-m.livejournal.com/299189.html

I appreciate your intentions, but the idea that half a clearly non-sexual chest shot of a man somehow is equal to a full shot of Carol in her underwear for purely redundant sexual reasons makes me throw up in my mouth.

The gif would probably be a thing if it was at all a sexy shot. It's not.

I'm just gonna copy my comments over from

cleolinda's LJ entry about the film:

When talking about the underwhelming factor: This is close to what I'm feeling now too about it. Even though I gave it an A-, because there are a lot of parts I enjoyed, it just really didn't click with me emotionally, and it left me nowhere near the 'mind blown in an extremely awesome way' level that I got from the '09 movie.

And with talking about a certain kind of 'pacing issue' that the film had: Exactly (Now- I'd say... at best- maybe a 'B' to 'B-' with an added 'You tried.' gold star sticker). And I agree with your comment about the pacing. I think it's also down to a kind of..'balance' issue almost- if that makes any sense. Compared to the '09 film, which IIRC had a much better balance between 'action' and 'quiet/talking'- Into Darkness was off-kilter in that regard to point to where the 'quiet/talking/emotional' scenes felt awkwardly shoved in (to paraphrase Kirk "Now? You're doing this emotional discussion now?!).

Also,I think, in JJ's attempt to make the film 'more accessible' to non-Trek fans- it ended up too much of an 'action flick', even though I really do enjoy action flicks.

And in terms of the whole Khan casting- I'm really loving the idea that some other fans have started generating. It's basically the simple concept of BC's Khan technically 'being' Khan, but not actually 'being' Khan. He's just assumed the name of Khan, and is actually the real Khan's top right-hand man.

He's the Dread Pirate Roberts! I hadn't seen that, that's clever.

lolol well-played

basically the simple concept of BC's Khan technically 'being' Khan, but not actually 'being' Khan. He's just assumed the name of Khan, and is actually the real Khan's top right-hand man.
Oh geez. Wow. I think that's giving them too much credit, personally; we thought for four years they were coming up with something great and new and they gave us a shoot-em-up rehashing of an old movie. not that I'm bitter. XB

But it feels to me--and to many of us, it seems--that it could've been so much more.

That was essentially what I said upon leaving the movie the first time. Admittedly I was also bummed because the way people I had been telling me that I "would love Sulu in the movie" was, I thought, a sign that he'd be in it more, or do something than sitting, and I felt like I'd been led totally astray.

I've since seen it again, after all the airing of everyone's grievances, the race thing, the plot fail, the lazy writing, my lack of Sulu, etc. And I liked it pretty well. But it isn't the movie I waited for.

hahah perfect icon is perfect, well done. and I thought of you and withthepilot during that Sulu moment, i will admit.

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They'll name a city after us / And later say it's all our fault

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